Let's pause and give Imus the benefit of the doubt

Don Imus is in the middle of a controversy over remarks that are being interpreted by some as racist. When his co-worker spoke about an African American Dallas Cowboys player being arrested, Imus asked, "what color is he?" "African American", he was told. Imus said, "oh, ok there you go".

Taken without context this remark may seem racist, but once you read Imus (in my view plausible) clarification, you may have second thoughts. The AP quotes Imus as saying:

"I meant that he was being picked on because he's black," Imus said in a statement released by his spokesman.

There is no way to know whether or not Imus meant this as an anti-black remark, or if he indeed sought to point out the fact that blacks are disproportionally targeted by police.

He has done it before, you might argue, but that raises the question:"Why would Imus do it again, knowing that this would probably mark the end of his career?

Furthermore, Imus is not heard uttering any racially sensitive remarks before or after the "what color was he" phrase. This is a sign that he was being cautious rather than reckless.

I don't know about you, but I find no strong evidence that Imus was trying to be racist this time around; I tend to believe he was trying to achievethe opposite therefore, I give him the benefit of the doubt, despite his history.



Display:


If (none / 0)

he didn't have a history of saying things like "nappy-headed hos", I'd be happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

In my opinion, the spokesman's clarification is ridiculous.  This seems pretty clear cut to me.  You  don't get a free racism pass forever.


by semiquaver on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:36:33 PM EST

Re: If (none / 0)

He didn't get a racism pass in the "nappy headed hoes" comments.


by kingsbridge77 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If (none / 0)

Maybe this is why:
Accusations of defamatory speech

As "shock jocks', Imus and his crew, mainly Bernard McGuirk, repeatedly used 'politically incorrect' remarks through skits and character impersonations in what they considered a comical format which critics labeled as racist, misogynist, homophobic and anti-semitic. He has also been accused of making offensive remarks off the air. Some would cite these examples:

   * In a 1984 interview, answering a question about Howard Stern, Don Imus said: "yes, Howard's a slut too, Lloyd...Plus a Jew bastard, and should be castrated... put in an oven" A clip of this interview was played by Howard Stern in the news section of his November 5, 2007 show.[cite this quote]

   * African-American sports columnist Bill Rhoden referred to as a "New York Times quota hire".[65]

   * In 1993, PBS anchor Gwen Ifill (then with the New York Times) referred to as a "cleaning lady."[66][67][68]

   * As reported by New York Times columnist Bob Herbert,[69] in the course of a 1998 interview with Mike Wallace on 60 Minutes, Imus told a producer off-camera that McGuirk was hired to perform "nigger jokes."

   * Robin Quivers claimed that when she worked with Imus at WNBC, he called her a "nigger" to her face.[70] Both Howard Stern and Quivers have also claimed that he screamed "Nigger, Nigger" at an African American secretary named Becky during their time at WNBC.[71]

   * Imus has also repeatedly referred to Arabs as "ragheads."[72]

   * He has berated many female newsreaders, most recently Contessa Brewer, which caused her to leave the show. After she left the show, Imus went on a tirade, saying, "With that fat ass she's got, she wouldn't be one of 'em," [a news 'babe'.]. Imus said on the air, "That skank has to spend three hours with makeup in the morning." The tirade was allegedly tied to comments overheard from Contessa's calling Imus "a cantankerous old fool" at a 2005 dinner in a restaurant when she was still a newsreader.[73] During a show a producer also made fun of poet Maya Angelou.[74]

   * On a December 15, 2004, show, Imus referred to publishers Simon & Schuster (under same ownership as CBS Radio) as "thieving Jews," and later in the show issued a mock apology, saying the phrase was "redundant." In October 1998, he described media critic Howard Kurtz as "that boner-nosed . . . beanie-wearing little Jew boy".[75]

   * The show's routines sometimes contained derogatory epithets for homosexuals, including "faggot" or "lesbo" and various terms describing homosexuality.[76]

   * Imus has also made fun of Irish, Jews, Italians, other nationalities and all political positions.[77]


by semiquaver on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:02:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Short answer: (none / 0)

He has done it before, you might argue, but that raises the question:"Why would Imus do it again, knowing that this would probably mark the end of his career?"

Because it was supposed to end his career last time, and didn't.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:43:05 PM EST

Re: Let's pause and give Imus the benefit of the d (none / 0)

yes, lets give all right wingers a pass on racism.

When will you get that racism is a core value of the gop?

Now if only one right winger loses their job today, I hope it is Charlie Black, but hopefully today/tommorow will be a twofer


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:45:28 PM EST

Is this snark? (2.00 / 2)

Serious question.

He's a racist. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:46:51 PM EST

Re: Is this snark? (none / 0)

The question is not whether he is a racist or not, but whether his remark in that particular video was intended to be racist.


by kingsbridge77 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It was. n/t (2.00 / 2)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:48:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It was. n/t (none / 0)

Thanks for your opinion.


by kingsbridge77 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Considering his history, (2.00 / 1)

I'd say my opinion is based in fact and precedent. How can you possibly justify his behavior? Why would you defend him?


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:15:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Considering his history, (2.00 / 1)

sricki, I can't tell you how much I enjoy (and support) what you write. When I read your diaries I sometimes think you are writing about me-- you could be me, only 30 or 40 years younger. Similar upbringing, similar thoughts, similar passions, a similar slow conversion to supporting Hillary and so forth. You are always a bastion of fairness and level headedness.

That is why I am disappointed that you have bought into the "Imus is a racist" meme without doing the research I would expect from you to discover whether or not it is true. Especially given the "Hillary and Bill are racists/race baiters" theme that was falsely circulated during the primaries, and especially given the road you took toward support of Hillary.

It is a given that Imus has brought his reputation upon himself. It's his own fault, based on 20 or 30 years of making outrageous and offensive statements deriving from his original persona of "shock jock". I certainly am not making excuses for his choice of words; I don't like it myself.

But he is not as he seems, and his private persona is quite different from his public one.

This latest statement, to anyone who is actually familiar with him, was meant precisely how he said it was meant: As a defense of "Pacman Jones". Let me add that being a big sports fan he knew perfectly well that Jones is black. He commonly asks questions he already knows the answer to in order to set something up. In this case he asked the question so he would have the opportunity to point out that Jones was being treated unfairly because of his color. He could just as easily have said, "Now we know why" as what he did say, and he probably should have-- but his regular listeners knew exactly what point he was making.

Are you aware that his producer is black, he has two black co-hosts, and that he has regular, serious, in-depth discussions about race on his program? Are you aware that for many years he has received hate mail targeting him as a n----- lover for playing and showcasing R & B artists, for playing the sermons of famed black evangelist Eugene Patterson, for fighting to get "Five Blind Boys From Alabama" on his show, for championing the candidacy of Harold Ford, Jr. to become the first black senator from the South since Reconstruction, and for speaking out on many other important issues? Do you know that in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Imus hammered home-- for weeks-- his conclusion that the Bush administration ignored the people left behind "because they were black" - BEFORE most others did?

Understand that I am not supporting his choice of language and juvenile name calling; I am regularly offended by it myself (except when he's ranting about Bush/Cheney being war criminals, which he is not joking about. I have noticed that no one except right wingers complain when he calls for the trial and execution of Cheney and Rumsfeld. But that's off topic.) But I will never forget his consistent, vigorous and generous support of our service men and women (active and veterans), which is very important to me. I can't think of another civilian who has done more than he has in that regard. So perhaps I am biased in his favor.

Dismissing him as a racist when he is not disturbs me, especially when it comes from you because I have such a high regard for you. It seems like such a knee jerk reaction, and beneath you.

I guess my question is: While we cherry pick our way through the truly outrageous and infantile things Imus says as part of his "shock jock/comedy" schtick, do we also not have a responsibility to check out what he says when he's being serious? Do we look at his life's work of doing good things or only at specific things he has said? Do we look at the whole picture or only the parts of it that support our bias?

I wonder if you have seen his mea culpa for the truly abominable thing he said about the Rutgers team (an irony in itself, since it was he who insisted that his sports reporters cover women's sports).

Normally I don't bother to provide links when I'm trying to make an unpopular point because they go unclicked and unread. But I think I will make an exception here because I believe you are a fair and open minded person and I think you might actually click on them (if you happen to see this, that is).

So here a link for you. It is a video of part of his mea culpa on his first day back on the air, and you can decide if you believe him or not. I wish I could find the entire video; it would be much better. Oh, and don't be put off by his "Hillary is Satan" remark at the end; he regularly makes sure everyone knows he's joking about that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0J8fpjV1 _w

There is a great deal of information available online that covers more than his outrageousness and presumed racism. Also take a look at his wife's work. You can start here: http://www.dienviro.com

Sorry for this long comment. And if, after careful examination, you still think he's a racist evil fellow, well I'll still love you in the morning. I'll disagree, but I'll still respect you. ;-)


by Swedie on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, Swedie., (none / 0)

I was unaware of a lot of that... You're right, mine was a knee-jerk reaction, but I assure you it wasn't beneath me -- I'm just as prone to anger and irrationality as anybody else. I expect you're probably right about Imus; I'm afraid I'd allowed myself to concentrate on cherry-picked remarks. He does need to STFU sometimes, though. ;)

You know, this comment was certainly long enough for a diary -- might I suggest that you post it (or something similar) as such? It's an unpopular viewpoint, but people would be more willing to take you seriously. No one listens to aliveandkicking, but you're respected -- they'd listen to you.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:51:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, my bad, it wasn't even (none / 0)

aliveandkicking who wrote this diary (it's been too many days), but my point was, I think people would respect your viewpoint. You do a much better job of effectively delivering your points than this diarist did.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's NOT (2.00 / 1)

Why would anyone write a diary to defend Imus?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:51:51 PM EST

Re: Let's NOT (none / 0)

That makes no sense. Should I pretend that I believe this particular remark by Imus is racist if I don't believe so? I believe, and any reasonable human would believe, that his "nappy headed hoes" were an ugly racist comment. But just because we are "left-wingers", and he is a "right-wingers, we shouldn't simply claim that all of his remarks are racist. Of course, I may be the only one giving him the benefit of the doubt on this case, but I am not a sheep who follows scripted thought.

Imus is, im my view, racist. How racist? Not the biggest racist, but racist; however, I don't believe he intended to go on air and tell this racist joke in front of millions of listeners, for the reasons stated in my diary.


by kingsbridge77 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:55:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's NOT (none / 0)

So he was trying to hide his racism and it just slipped out?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:01:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I actually agree with KN on this one. (none / 0)

I think the comment was just incredibly stupid.

Whether he harbours racist attitudes or not is a different question, this imho was just a moronic use of words by someone who should know better (but who says so many moronic things he's bound to get a doozy out from time to time).

Just my thoughts.  I just wrote something about the hyper-sensitivity to racisism/sexism that often distracts from the real social problems thereof, and this seems like one of them.  I would tend to save the energy to address racial biases where they make a difference rather than parse some radioshow host's miserable use of words.

-chris


Donate!
by chrisblask on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:10:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Meant KB, not KN (aka The Diarist) (none / 0)


Donate!
by chrisblask on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's pause and give Imus the benefit of the (none / 0)

If it wasn't racist, it was extremely poor judgment.  The guy's already gotten into trouble, and unprovoked he brings up the question, "What color is he?"  Dumb.


by rfahey22 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:02:53 AM EST

Re: Let's pause and give \ (none / 0)

He's free to speak his mind.  I can't read it.

That said, his staying on the air seems to be an ever less sane proposition for the media companies that invariably pay him.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:09:26 AM EST

Sorry to godwin, but (none / 0)

Not comparing you as a person, but your reaction that you just can't believe he'd be so racist, so his comments must not be, reminds me of Hitler's "big lie" idea, that if you are outrageous enough with your untruths, people will believe them because they can't believe anyone would have the audacity to say things so wrong.


by semiquaver on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:10:18 AM EST

Well, that's a stretch and a half (none / 0)

I would suggest that most of the commenters here don't really know much of anything about Imus beyond his outrageous statements. Well, that's what he does for a living: Make outrageous statements and make fun of people. Sometimes he crosses the line.

In this particular case, if you take that one statement in context it is easy to understand what he meant, and he didn't mean it as racist. In the lead-up to that sentence he was actually defending the guy (which was stupid enough, since the guy is an asshole regardless of his color).

Comedians/shock jocks and the like have a public persona and a private one. In Imus' public persona (a 40-year career) he has been anti-black, anti-semitic, anti-fat, anti-women, anti-religion, anti-Catholic, anti-Italian, anti-Irish, anti-Hispanic, anti-flower, anti-wheat thins, anti-you name it.

In his private life he is none of those.

And as for how right wing he is, perhaps some commenting here may not know that wingnuts were delighted when he was fired because they consider him liberal, lol. Maybe because of his continued (to this day) attacks on Bush and Cheney for being "war criminals". I suspect he really means that one, since his anger about the Iraq war and the way our service men and women have been treated is quite real.

He voted for Bill Clinton and John Kerry, by the way, and was among the first and most vocal to rant against the swiftboating of Kerry.

I'm pretty sure that this will change no one's mind, but it would be encouraging if MyDD's most excellent diarists and commenters could resist the urge toward knee-jerk reactionism demonstrated so often on dKos and in the MSM and actually do some research on the subject before coming to a fact-based, reality-based conclusion.

Just sayin'... ;-)

PS: Imus was scheduled to have Dick Gregory on his show on Tuesday (wow, that's today already) to talk about the death of George Carlin, who was a frequent guest on his show. Don't know if Gregory will still be appearing or not.


by Swedie on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:46:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, that's a stretch and a half (none / 0)

Then maybe he needs a new line of work.  You know, the kind where he doesn't have to (pretend to) be a hateful, mean-spirited, jackass.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, that's a stretch and a half (none / 0)

That was a flip response. So I guess you don't care enough about what the truth is to investigate whether or not your perception of him and/or his show has any real validity.

Not that it will make any difference to you and others, but just for the record Imus' producer is African American, he has two co-hosts who are AA, he regularly has AA guests on his show to discuss race issues, and in fact since he came back on the air there have been more (and more serious) discussions on the subject than any other radio/tv show out there.

The outcry against this particular statement is ridiculous on its face, but I recognize that I'm beating against the wind here so there doesn't seem to be much percentage in carrying on.

Peace out...


by Swedie on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:48:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, that's a stretch and a half (none / 0)

I don't know if he's a racist.  He's definitely used racial language, and the nappy-headed hos comment was racist.  More than that, he's mean-spirited, at least on the show.  I imagine he does it for effect and because that's his job, but it still makes him a jackass.  Totally irrespective of this particular comment, I still think he's a jerk.  I don't think he should have been fired for the original comment which was much worse than this one, so I don't think he should be fired now.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 03:15:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don Imus (2.00 / 1)


by JJE on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:31:07 AM EST

Re: Don Imus (none / 0)

My thoughts exactly.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:17:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I actually think it is a good topic (none / 0)

regardless of the reason for the diary.

In fact, even if there was negative intent in the diary, it just underlines my point.

I think folks (and folks left-of-center moreso than those right-of) are overly sensitive to offense and often make the problem worse.

My approach to all this stuff is to assume the best if at all possible. If someone is holding a door for you, maybe they are just being polite.  Maybe (like me), they hold the door for everyone (and yes, CG, I do value politeness even if I pick on Canadians for it... ;-).

As someone who has these kinds of conversations with folks on each point of the political spectrum, I know the Right counter-answer to the Explosive Offense Defense.  In fact, I agree with it.  Not infrequently, those who are apparently being offensive are yanking your chain.  "Concern Trolling", if you will.  When you rise to the bait, you don't change any opinions - you reinforce them.

Imus may be a good-ole-boy and a loudmouth, but pouncing on his words and breaking out the tar and feathers just strengthens the opinions of his supporters that you are a "knee-jerk liberal smart ass".  The person who was being discussed onthe show in question issued a statement <sic>"It is too bad he said that, I pray for him."  Now that is a comment that can soften the opposition!

-chris


Donate!
by chrisblask on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 09:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Answer (none / 0)

"He has done it before, you might argue, but that raises the question:"Why would Imus do it again, knowing that this would probably mark the end of his career?"

Because he can't help himself.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:32:53 AM EST

Re: Let's pause and give Imus the benefit of the d (none / 0)

It seems to me if he meant it the way they are trying to spin it, that he would have expanded on his comment and used the opportunity to speak out about inequalities under the law. Since all we have to go on is the actual statment he made and his past comments, I tend to doubt the explanation.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:46:33 AM EST

Re: Let's pause and give Imus the benefit of the d (none / 0)

best thing would be to just disrespect this fool. It's not worth fighting him about. Let the old kook say what he wants and we are free to make fun of him.


by Pravin on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 05:05:01 AM EST

Hey (none / 0)

No need to pile on McCain in a diary about Imus.  :-)


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:40:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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